Browning proof marks. It adds about $200 to the value.

Browning proof marks Barrels with the stamping of only: "BROWNING ARMS COMPANY ST. The A truly Belgian gun would almost certainly have Belgian proof marks. I would recommend using the NRA website. The spangled E may be a year code or controller countermark. All matching SNs, looks like original non-blued finish, and what appears to be original magazine. From what I found, it's the Nitro Proof marking used by Miroku made guns. Join Date Mar 2011 Location Grand Rapids, MI Yes, proofs. Excellent overall condition. The Baby Browning pistol. Louis and Monreal marking indicates import between 1959 and 1968. I. The data you need to understand your bore stamps. Looking to purchase my first A5. Been searching for a while. The Anchor is a different one that i have not seen. . Save Share Anyways, I noticed some proof marks on the trigger gaurd and was curious if anyone could identify what it means. FAL Abbreviation for Fusil Automatique Legere, a rifle made by, or under To identify old Browning shotguns, look for specific markings such as serial numbers, proof marks, and engravings. The "U" top inletting, the "PV+crown" proofmark and the "U+star" Controller of Proof mark, I think dates it 1966 consistent with the serial number on the barrel. I checked carlson and trulock sites and measured chokes i have and thet are also stamped with sizes except for the browning chokes both invector and invector plus and cylinder bore chokes are stamped and mesure . " O Ü 0 V A Proof marks are as follows: (By special agreement the Ithaca Gun Company, the Lefever Arms Company, and the Western Arms Corporation, all of Ithaca, conduct their proof tests jointly, and employ the With the debate that is going on about lead shot, I checked my Browning 425 for proof marks for steel shot - there are none. Do you know where I can find out what choke those stand for? I am hoping the top barrel is modified and the bottom one is improved cylinder, but it is a mystery right now. The one E/WaA613 waffenamt (military acceptance mark) is found on the left side trigger guard and ONLY there. Etienne proof mark on an MAB-made Baby Browning. The usual array of proof marks but nothing German military or any military for that matter. Pay attention to the engraved . firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. 4. This shows it will handle high performance steel. Trying to figure out if it's a 1938-ish era Hi-Power or a post war-pre Browning? I've read where FN resumed production in the late 1940's at serial number 1 and made around 8-9K a year. ***** For inquiries please call Guy - 407-721-3748 SOLD I recently acquired FN Browning Hi Power on Gun Broker. Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that Figured out it was made in 1974 per serial number info on this forum. The browning site is horrible for serial numbers. 850 Bar) whereas under the British system the Highest Mean Service Pressure was shown. ARCHIVED; Posted: 1/4/2021 3:10:08 PM EST Choke is a measurement of the constriction from the bore diameter with "*" being the marking for "Full". According to my father it's a Belgian produced Browning Hi Power and the serial number would indicate a production year of 1982. The grips are made of animal horn. Without the standard markings it's difficult to even pin down a mfg. Can't find anything on here. The C. The 1910 Browning and a Spanish copy, the Bufalo. Gunsmithing & Nazi markings are Eagle/WaA140. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. However, the other day I got out the case that came with the gun (I bought it secondhand and had put the case in the attic), and I found tucked in with the guarantee certificate, a card that states that Browning certifies that the B425 'may be used Those are just some proof marks. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Articles I am a Forum User. From 12/41 until the end of the war they used the WaA140 acceptance Early Production Browning FN Model 1899/1900 Transitional Test Pistol sold for 20K This wonderful example is all original and has the characteristics and proof marks from both the Model 1899 and early 1900 test manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Browning Serial Numbers. Reply to this topic; Start new topic; Recommended Posts. Browning choke markings are: * designates full choke (F). The gun will be stamped ‘steel shot’ and have a fleur de lys proof mark. You can, however, call Browning--they have a service where for around $40 their historian will track where your gun was made, first sold, etc I have seen a few pre-war Browning Hi Power pistols offered for sale recently with a "P9" marking under a triangle on the front right side of the trigger guard. WaA 135 was used at the late war Mauser factory , for example. We have used Browning demonstrators for a number of years and I have yet to have a fault. PV is Poudre Vive, the smokeless powder proof, and is normally CIP, London & Birmingham Proof Houses’ Barrel Proof Symbols Equivalency Table For Use with Steel Shot Ammunition Barrel is a regular barrel with proofs on left from top to bottom: C, *J, Lion over PV, *J, Perron proof mark, a diamond with a 16 over a C inside, crown over ELG. WaA = Waffen Amt ; the number is used to designate the factory, I believe. Cartridges then & Now. but you can look on the net and there's definitely books that explain proof marks. One source says that sn would be in the 1940 to 1944 range and should also have E It is indeed a proof mark from the factory, although a great many Kareens don't have the proof. All info regarding Belgian proofs comes from this site: I spoke to the Browning Historian who confirmed the shotgun did not appear in their records and so had not been retailed through Browning. The barrel weighed . Above are a 1984 MKII and a 1990 A. This is acceptable since the gun was proofed in a national proof house after original Manufacturers of sporting and military arms, primarily known for its Browning designed weapons, and in the United States for guns labeled Browning. 6K views 24 replies 11 participants last post by cpw - in Memoriam Oct 30, 2020. Fine bore. 380) and are very rare. 5. Blake Stevens' book, "The Browning Hi Power Automatic Pistol", The WA140 Waffenamt code was used beginning in the final months of 1941 until the Germans retreated out of Germany in September of 1944. It adds about $200 to the value. Also the trigger looks to be missing a piece possibly? Thank is advance. From Diggory Hadoke, Vintage Guns, Skyhorse, 2008. ). The left side of the frame shows FABRIQUE Perhaps the simplest date coding of the lot is that applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and the break-action guns they build for Browning. Alternative imperial proof marks introduced in 1954 gave service pressures in tons per square inch, marked as ‘3 tons’. Flintknapper. For instance, Gangarosa states that the “PV” only To identify old Browning shotguns, look for specific markings such as serial numbers, proof marks, and engravings. To make sense of these proof marks, let’s look at those on the above slide chin. Is the gun parkerized and then poly coated? FN and Browning roll marks. 6mm or greater). Marlin-Savage-Winchester Serial Numbers. Japan does not have a gun barrel proof act, but the Hi, I see this question has been asked before but I cannot find the meaning of all the proof marks on an older Browning A5 16ga. I believe it was stamped by Fuchs Jacques and is from 1960-1962 or so, a period when the Browning Hi-Power Help with details about my surplus High Power? Jump to Latest a "pig nose" at the muzzle, and very few visible roll marks or proof marks. 4mm diameter (Browning back-bores some of its production guns now to 18. In World Firearms 11-20-2010, 08:05 PM. V. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. The table shows the description, dates used, and the proof marks, e,g, The Perron, ELG’s These are in caliber 9mm Kurz (. Prior to the Nazis rolling into Belgium Browning Custom B25 shotgun: Browning B25s have always been popular both as game and clay shooting guns in Britain. 65, serial number 10441, with the proof mark *E I've been able to identify the marks using this, including the Controller of Proof Code showing it to be made between 1924-59 From my limited research, the "NP" marking on the barrel and extension is a Miroku "nitro-proof" marking and is found on all (5) of my Miroku barrels. Liege, Belgium: A single letter, either Roman or Greek, upper or lower case, underlined or not. On most over and under shotguns this should be situated under the top lever and on Semi-Autos somewhere on the receiver In the Serial number there are two letters together – This is your date code. Rotate the mark 90 degrees. In the case of the Birmingham Proof House, this was marked as ‘3 tons per square inch’ until 1954. Gun was made for import to North America. Show Printable Version; 03-22-2011, 08:27 PM #1. Drule Discussion starter. It was also used by Fuchs Jacques from 1960-1968. For your gun the dating system on Browning's web site is useless. It seems it could be the first Belgian proof mark. The barrel code should be above the PV. What are your exact barrel markings? (all of the markings and placement) Was as follows 1Kg191ξB then 3 sets of proof marks, the ξ and B are sideways. Also, because the Belgian proof marks are something I know about. *Please note the British Proof Authority will not give guidance on pre-1954 marks and recommends re-proof of such arms. I have recently acquired what looks like a Browning auto 5 with a date code of "d" which means either 1925 or 1965. Barrel right side Perhaps the simplest date coding of the lot is that applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and the break-action guns they build for Browning. ** special steel 12 Ga. Proofmarks could be a story or a book themselves. Louis, Mo. The top proof mark indicates the Kiel Proof House. It is not a "proof mark", per se. Here's one of the Belgian marking sources I foundit's in English, the "Flaming Vase with "L" stamp is #35. ", were made from 1930 to 1958. SHELLS - 2 3/4" is the same spacing/font as on my other barrels. Gunsmithing & Technical. 630 skeets are . 1911 Colt Arsenal No's 1911 Colt Production. Jimmy Lee, Jan 15, 2019 #16. Japan does not have a gun barrel proof act, but the Miroku/Browning system is remarkable for its clarity. However in early 1943, a new serial number system was implemented British Proofs. Two letters at the end of the serial number indicate the year. Chart showing the syntax of English proofmarks in force over time---an aid in determining a gun's period of manufacture. The Browning has markings on the side of each barrel. Browning Age Lookup. and a half of shot and this proof load sets up a predetermined pressure of about 40 per cent in excess of the maximum service load. ' Stamped on the top. The proof symbols are explained in their simplest possible terms for what ammunition may be used with the relevant proof symbol above. I haven't had time, but plan on doing the barrel date codes, just trying to find a way to post it without causing more confusion. These small engraved symbols or stamps found on shotgun barrels provide essential information about the gun's manufacturing and quality control process. Bore size proof marks. Barrel is 4 3/8". Share More sharing options Followers 0. Can I identify a Miroku shotgun by its barrel markings? Miroku shotguns and Browning shotguns can have similarities as Miroku manufactures some models for Browning. 012 construction and improved mod has . Browning b725 proof markings Browning b725 proof markings. Seems Hallowell & Co. The proofs consisting of ELG/* in crowned oval (definitive proof), rampant lion over PV (nitro proof), and I don't recall the crown/U -but it is like the first two a Liege proof and together establish the gun was made in Belgium surprisingly, the most info I've found on dating these guns is here, rather than any browning/FN forum I've seen I've got an FN 1910 in 7. The steps to the column is "The Perron" and dates back to 1672. On the receiver is another marking, which DamascusBarrels. The serialization appears to date the gun to 1938 (202###) Both barrels have matching numbers I've got a 1958 A-5 Light Twelve & barrel says : on left -Browning Arms Co. *- designates improved modified choke (IM). 32ACP (7,65mm), manufactured in Herstal, Belgium, all proof marks are Belge, proof marks on chamber: P. lays down common rules and regulations for the proof of weapons and their ammunition in order to ensure the mutual recognition of Proof Marks by its member Shotgun Proof Marks: What You Need to Know Before Blasting Away! 🎯 Shotgun proof marks are a fascinating aspect of firearms, particularly shotguns, that help identify their safety and performance standards. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service. Browning passed away in 1926 before the design was finished. Browning Serial No's: 1911 Colt Serial Numbers. The serial number is E0221x (Slide, Frame and Barrel) There are proof marks on the slide and frame. If any choke was going to be opened up after-market, it would be Full, so it's worth measuring. I'm just reading this from a website I read the term 'combination proof' elsewhere. Hi- Thought I would share some pictures of a Browning 1922 I picked up recently (non-import, soldier bring back with papers, holster, plastic grips, two 9 shot clips). The Browning Hi Power models can be identified by their markings, finishes, and features. Note the distinctive marking on this Nazi-made model with Waffenamt proof marks. Proof & Date Codes Proof Date Codes Luger Proof/Acceptance Marks WW2 Small Arms Identification Gallery Stara Proof & Date Codes Star Firearms: Dating your Star Pistol with Proofmarks West I will take a couple of pictures of the gun this week and I'll check out the proof marks. V", then below that is a 5 pointed star and what appears to be a capital K (looks more like half H and half K). Testing Firearms: Proof Test Marks Firearms History, Technology & Development: Testing Firearms: Proof Test Several proof marks from London, This mark was used by Controller of Proof Charlier Hubert from 1923-1953. a digital caliper which puts them somewhere between IC and skeet so I'm guessing they are probably $ and $ as most Browning barrels are a little tighter than advertised. It was then engraved for import into the US with the FNMI Columbia, SC import stamp and refinished. In a nutshell, much can be determined about the origins and to a wide extent the date of manufacture of some shotguns just by examining the [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Help with barrel/choke markings on nice Belgian Browning Auto-5 - pics. One is an O with a star above and the other is a lion over P. Joseph FRAIKIN, was involved from the very beginning in the creation of the Permanent International Commission(the C. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. LOUIS Mo. The top barrel is marked ** and the bottom barrel is marked **-. Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. 018 contrtuction and the Browning has some of your answers on their site. Interestingly enough, most people do not know that the Israeli Kareen was designed to fire the 158gr FMJ submachine gun round fired from Uzi's, thus, it was actually designed to be stronger than the Browning HP. Illustrated Firearms Dictionary is for informational This is similar to item 2 but is showing more pictures of the proof marks. Browning High Power Markings. I was told by the previous owner that it had been in the family since 1925 BUT the shotgun also (Pages from Anthony Vanderlinden’s “FN Browning Pistols, Side-Arms that Shaped World History) - This page about the captured and seized Belgian military pistols gave explanation as to why High Powers marked with a Wa613 were considered fraudulent. Captured weapons from major wars occasionally show two different nationalities of proof marks. A more detailed version would have lions at each corner of the steps. Overall: 47/50 With effect from October 1st, 1989 only Metric markings were allowed to be used; The actual proof marks used by Birmingham and London have not changed only the marking on guns of the chamber length in millimetres and that of the pressure in Bars, (e. They bear Belgian proof marks for the 2. But unlike the 1911, the High Power has always stayed under the Browning name and it is still manufactured today by Miroku in Japan. No small part of the Belgians' remarkable There is much confusion over which steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols”. 630 light mod has . 3/4″ (76mm) cartridge. The serial number on barrel matches You don’t say whether your gun is the A5 auto or a Superposed O/U. These cartridges should only be used in shotguns that The efficient FN Browning Model 1910 and its offshoot, the Model 1922 (aka “10/22”), were designed by firearm marvel John Moses Browning and built in Belgium at Fabrique Nationale. Browning proof marks. It's on every Miroku Invector, and Invector Plus barrel I havewhich is (5) to include this one. S. To find the year of proof of your (Post 1975) Browning or Miroku shotgun you’ll need to find the Serial Number. Each of them has had the correct pre-war Belgian military proofs ("C" in an octagon or square). 380 proof marks. ) for the Proof of Small Arms. Shipping is $50. I know it was proofed in Birmingham, I just need to get my magnifying glass out and decipher the very small letters/numbers! Miroku Knowing what steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols”, can be very confusing. ** designates modified choke (M). Browning Owners. Gunsmithing & Technical | June 2018. The Citori was never made in Belgium, the closest thing would be the B125 which is a Citori that was made in Japan, finished in Belgium, and has a Superposed style forend iron, but this ain't that. I was wondering if someone could provide a history lesson regarding this Browning HP I inherited from my BROWNING 1910 - NAZI PROOF MARKS Description: Browning 1910 with Nazi Proof Marks. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun Values by S. The indication for this is the "NP" marking. 1922, cal . Enter your email below to download the FREE GUIDE to find I believe it is a combination proof. shells 2 3/4" C12-70 ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others. Saive, in fact, had tweaked a few of Browning’s designs as part of his job. However the service is very good. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Fjestad. The date for this mark is 1893-present. If a Superposed, then on the left side barrel’s breech. FN Browning 1922 pistol made under German occupation. The scrolling on the bolt is interesting, there's normally just proof marks and the serial number there. In 1899 alone, the U. Dieudonné Joseph Saive, famed Belgian small arms designer, took over the design. There Any work on the gun must be undertaken by Browning to avoid invalidating the warranty – this includes stock alteration. 849 Kg at the Here is Lee Kennett's complete listing of Belgian proof marks in his "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," published in the 32nd edition of The Gun Digest (1978), 129-138. D. The barrels are fixed That P in the circle is most likely a proof mark required by some contract which the frame was not used for or simply a casting mark. The Bufalo proofmarks were probably just an effort to imitate the Belgian marks. The quality of construction and fit and finish is of the highest Thread: FN (Browning patent) 1922 . V under Belge Lion: proof for smokeless powder, E under small Lion: proof inspector, Ellipse with crown, inside ELG*: proof for black powder (1st. I guess this would indicate 1956? Did not find any info on what the B prefix means or A: Check the barrel of your gun. Introduction In 1914 the Liège Proof Master (1908 - 1946) M. There are some proof marks on the barrel. ( I would have really thought they still would carry the browning markings Hey all. For more than you ever wanted to know about firearms proof, with an emphasis on Britain, download pdf file The Hallowell & Co. I can't make out the rest. Need Help identifying Proof Marks -WW2 German HP. Proof Marks Proof marks Belgian proofs on A5s are often subject of discussions and questions, I like to add some photos and explanations. g. Belgian-made models may have specific proof marks and engravings indicating FN browning Mod. The serial numbers on the barrel and the forend match the receiver, but I can't find any reference to the actual chokes. I have found several sources on the internet that gives me a clue to when this pistol was made but they are conflicting with each other. Each model has a distinct set of characteristics that make it unique, such as the presence of adjustable sights, ambidextrous safeties, or specific engraving on the slide. :bthumb: Just seeing if someone can take a look at pics of this gun I'm looking at buying and tell me what the proof marks mean on the barrel. Cross-referencing these details with Browning’s records or consulting with a firearms expert can help determine the age, model, and production year of I have a friend who recently purchased A Browning A5, with two barrels. Since Kiel is only 17 miles from SIG Sauer’s manufacturing facility in Eckernförde, that’s the proof mark you should expect to see on a proofed SIG Sauer. Kiel Proof House Mark. Browning started importing them around 1954, so might this be a 1953 Acquired a Browning FN Mod 1922, and have suspicions that it's an occupation-era commercial production based on the SN, SN letter style, Nazi proof marks, and triangle proof mark on the rear of the frame. Jump to Latest 6. 410. If nothing comes of it no big deal, but just thought I'd ask. Development from 1851 to 2019. affinity121. Gun has fixed chokes, but I can't find any identifiers on the barrel to indicate how the gun is choked. Credit cards OK with no additional fee. Register Log in Notes on the Proof of Shotguns & Other Small Arms This booklet is issued by the Birmingham and London Proof Authorities and gives British Proof Marks and current Proof Rules, foreign Proof Marks by country, pre and post War German Markings and other useful information, 5 ¾” x 8 ¼”, 37 pages" as booklet above from another website . Barrel bores are quite tight at a traditional 18. Value: 9/10 At around £6,000 the Heritage is a high grade gun that will serve you well. Somewhere along the way the mag disconnect was removed, I have never observed the barrel inscription and would think it is aftermarket. The extra barrel (with Montreal on it) was made between 1959 and '63. Thread Tools. In 1989, all proof data was marked in metric using the bar as the unit of measurement. Also, because the proof markings may be very helpful to get additional info on a specific gun. 2 posts · Joined 2020 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Oct 29, 2020. These again are pre-war parts and show a very high quality. test), proof marks on the left side: finishing proof with smokeless PROOF MARKS-Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. From about 25,000 until about 57,000 (5/41-12/41) they used the WaA103 acceptance mark. Discussion in 'Browning Hi Power Handgun' started by HL7a77 If other proof marks still exist on the barrel or anywhere inside, they might be helpful it narrowing down a date. Why would it not be safe to shoot? The 12-70 in the oval is 12 ga 2 3/4. It has the Belgium proofs on the left side but no Dutch Army acceptance marks. There's also the inspector's stamp on the slide, barrel and frame: a G with a star (5-point, not an asterisk) over it. Posted October 6, 2013. The PV surmounted by the lion indicates the gun uses smokeless powder. Another FN 27" plain barrel with 'Browning Arms Company St Louis Mo. The proof marks on a Miroku shotgun indicate that the firearm has undergone extensive testing to ensure it meets specific safety standards. It's a matching slide assembly and frame. If an A5, the the choke marking should be on the left rear outside of the barrel. By affinity121, October 6, 2013 in Guns & Equipment. Use of Steel Shot Ammunition There is much confusion over what steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols” as we prefer to refer Amongst proof marks are codes enabling one to determine the date of manufacture of many guns. Those import marks are probably the various Belgian proof markings. P. It is an internal extractor style with "Fabrique Nationale D'Arms de Guerre" and "Browning's Patent Dispose" on the port side. If you jump on Browning Owners Forum, you can find the info under the auto 5 section. Sample photos of their layouts are at the bottom of the page. Tags According to R. Shown are typical proofs on A5 barrels 1903 to 1924 and 1924. St. A closer look at the markings reveal that "BROWNING AUTO-5 SPECIAL STEEL 12GA. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information. The Belgian proof mark is on the slide, frame and barrel (see the photos): the lion above a line with PV underneath. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U. Your pistol has civilian proof marks and with that serial number was probably made in early 1936. The eagle/swastika is the German military proof mark, used on guns made in occupied countries; note the absence of the pre-war Belgian proof marks (ELG, perron, etc. Are you sure about 1909? The Browning High Power was made by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium, and was designed by John Moses Browning like like the Colt 1911. Members; 153 Report The proof marks include what appears to me a standing monkey (2 arms, 2 legs, head and tail) with a line underneath it that says "P. The mark is an acceptance mark, meaning the gun has gone into German Army service. Forums > Handguns > Browning Hi Power Handgun > Help to ID FN Hi Power. See photo. That has a serious collector searching for identifying proof marks. '1 Kg 000', a marking that looks like the 'pye' symbol, '*B', the Belgian proof mark for 'nitro proof', the Belgian proof mark for 'definitive black powder proof', and a marking that looks like the 'omega' symbol with the numbers '16-70' in the center. com defines as "The Perron, sole proof mark until It sounds like a standard 12 to me, normally worth $400-$500. Cross-referencing these details with Browning’s Normally the Oval/Crown contains the letters ELG for Epreuve de Liege, the final mark of government proof. For corroboration, cross-reference with the proof house controllers' mark. Another mark is of a lion above the letters "PV", which means "Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms" (date 1898-present). Its kinda a quagmire the choke size thing. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. The St. slo2type2u. xkbdcxno wwdtv dim vsrwfuv fls tms oemfnx sujpjh bdsxt jeged